So, why does feminism ignore boys?

April 20, 2012 by Sean Faye

Image from guardian.co.uk

I’ll start by explaining what this post isn’t. This isn’t one of those ‘feminism has gone too far, what about men?’ posts. It will not feature me figuratively (or literally) bestriding the narrow world either like a Colossus or like one of those superhero pricks from Fathers4Justice and crying out against the wrongs feminism has done to men. I also won’t try and spout some weak drivel about how feminism has achieved its goals so why don’t you just pipe down, girls? Finally, I won’t be saying anything like “the most oppressed group in the UK today are white, heterosexual males” because that truly is the mark of a moron.

Just so we’re clear: I’m cool with feminism. I’ll cheer for Greer. I’m surfing the third wave (or is it the fourth?). Me and feminism are like Thelma and Louise. If you started to bristle when you read the title, you can relax. If you were hopeful about the title and are starting to bristle as you realise I’m an emasculated flounce of a man you may walk the plank now.

However, I think there is a general problem when it comes to men and feminism. Some feminists say it’s the oppressors’ rage at seeing their patriarchal power and dominion threatened; I say that, in a lot of cases, it’s just that men don’t get it. Why would we? When I was at school (independent, all boys- I know, it was never going to be a Dianic love-in, but still) no one ever came to speak to us about balancing a career with children or explained to us what might happen if we became teenage fathers. It just never came up. Not our issue – that was for our friends at the girls’ school. Same with putting condoms on root vegetables (Matron showed us a femidom once but that was universally considered a bizarre anomaly). For some reason this bit of sex-ed silliness was judged to be a strictly feminine art, ignoring the fact that this (a) absolved us of all contraceptive responsibility and (b) was totally useless if you were gay and would never encounter one of the appropriately trained females.

A female teacher once tried to explain why holding doors open for female staff was patronising but was silenced by a lot of self-congratulatory braying about our ‘chivalry’ – James who sat at the back of the class had a girlfriend and she loved it. So did his mum. No arguing with that. This did raise an interesting point, though – that misogyny is in the eye of the beholder. As a result, both boys and men get constant mixed messages. A huge issue like attitudes to rape are dicey but get at least some airtime – however, the subtler relationships between men, women, sex and violence are rarely investigated in male circles.

Internet porn has become the secret training manual of the adolescent male libido and men spend the rest of their sex lives trying to simultaneously replicate and rein in the effects of this with real women. Porn, like a host of feminist issues, is a ground for debate. Are men and boys the purveyors of porn or its victims? Is it men that need to change or is it the porn? To what extent does feminism rely on curbing natural male desire and the commercial interests of consenting female performers? These are surely questions that could do with being put to young men earlier and more often, allowing them to discover what they think about it for themselves rather than leaving them to their own devices and attempting some type of crude ‘correction’ of their mores at some later stage.

Getting men more involved with feminism may have its pitfalls, of course. An issue like abortion is often framed by saying it is a woman’s right to choose and anything approaching an argument for men ‘having a say’ is anathema. That said, slavish adherence to this principle also produces a culture where the responsibilities and consequences of sex become the preserve of women, their partners’ gleeful thrusts unburdened by any remote consciousness of the serious effect pregnancy, wanted or unwanted, can have on women’s psyche or freedoms. Striking the right balance is difficult but can only come about by opening up the discussion and working out the kinks as we go, rather than what’s happening now – i.e. nothing.

I can see how the liberation of women has been the business of women themselves. Trying to ‘win men over’ to feminism could be construed as weakening – like a hostage bargaining with her captor. However, there remains a risk that feminism is side-lined as a special interest category purely because half of the population aren’t involved in the discussion. Engaging men more directly could make feminism the powerful, omnipresent, penetrating force it should be. See, now I’ve said ‘penetrating’ in a post on feminism – there are the wages of patriarchy for you.

Sean is a boy. He is currently in between being a student and a lawyer, and in his spare time, he writes a superb blog over on notbiginjapan.com. He recently compared the Kardashians and the Middletons. You have been warned. You can also find him on Twitter


Post comment as twitter logo facebook logo
Sort: Newest | Oldest
JayCockburn 7 pts

Part of the problem is that often men are referred to as a single force. It makes them feel like outsiders. I've certainly never tried to opress women but I'm still very much male - so why tar us all with the same brush? Men, like women, aren't always in the wrong and aren't always in the right. Lots of feminists (not all) don't quite get this and it ends up with plenty of articles that feel a bit 'Us Vs. Them'.If I feel any rage when I read an article it's not because I am an opresser seeing my power threatened, it's exactly the opposite. It's because I believe very strongly in womens' rights and yet by virtue of being a male I'm portrayed as the enemy. It's also hugely patronising to both men and women to suggest that we have to 'curb our natural desires' to allow women to be equal. Men and women like having sex and watching porn. To suggest men have to curb those desires is to suggest that the natural state is one of male sexual dominance over women.

mhd_bass 5 pts

 JayCockburn totally agree with your point about sex and porn - see mine below...

 

But I do take umbrage with men complaining that they shouldn't be spoken of as a single force.  Of course, individually many men are valuable allies. However, historically and socially men ARE an oppressive category. We don't complain when people speak of "whites" oppressing blacks in apartheid South Africa, even though there were many white individuals who fought hard for the black cause. 

 

Again, feminism is not about making men feel comfortable. If men call themselves feminist - and I'm thrilled when they do - then they must accept that they do so from a position of privilege.

JayCockburn 7 pts

I'm glad we agree on porn and sex (not a sentence I expected to type at work today).

 

I think what I was trying to get across is the assumption that because I might benefit from a patriarchy then I agree with it. I don't want to be viewed as an opressor just because I've got a cock and balls (or because I'm white for that matter).

 

That's why sometimes I feel left out of the argument...and I think a significant proportion of men believe in womens' rights but feel as if we'd be portrayed as hypocrits for speaking out.

 

Feminism needs to be portrayed as pro-female not anti-male.

mhd_bass 5 pts

 JayCockburn Very true - feminism IS pro-female and not anti-male and it's a shame that that doesn't always come across. But at the same time, male feminists have to put their discomfort second to the struggle. That's why I'd really recommend that article I posted - the author is very honest about coming to terms with that fact.

JayCockburn 7 pts

Thanks I'll have a read!I had a quick think about porn (shut up) and thought it was important to clarify that a lot of porn is pretty horrendous in its objectification of women...but to say that porn is innately like that is to suggest that the natural state of sex itself is one of male dominance. I hope that makes sense...Now I really must get one with the small matter of the programme I'm supposed to be producing right now. Thanks for the discussion though, most enlightening.

mhd_bass 5 pts

 JayCockburn Agree with everything you just wrote. Most pro-porn feminists are campaigning against the appalling standard (both ethically and just...artistically...) of most porn as it is today, but upholding the fact that porn doesn't HAVE to be sexist.

 

Good to chat!

jessicabateman 6 pts

 JayCockburn Feminism is about recognising the system of patriarchy that we all – men and women – live under. Patriarchy is a system that privileges men over women, and so if you are a man living under it – even if you do not feel that you personally oppress women – you are still benefitting from it.

mhd_bass 5 pts

"To what extent does feminism rely on curbing natural male desire" - hah! There is a huge majority of feminist who are sex-positive and certainly not anti-porn. Sadly the anti-porn femnists have had undue press but this is still a pretty retrograde simplification.

 

On another note, I am all for male allies but they need to understand that this is a battle which must be fought on women's terms. They must support women in their struggles, not demand that the debate changes so that they can more comfortably join in.

 

I would recommend this very moving post on being a male feminist: http://www.gender-agenda.org.uk/discuss/805/soul-of-a-man-under-feminism/

SeanFaye 5 pts

Thanks for your comment. You may think it is retrograde but many feminists still argue that pornography can never be anything more than a capitalist exercise in commodifying the female body. I believe it is possible for depicitons of sex not to be inherently exploitative but all anti-porn arguments aren't merely 70s throwbacks: which is why I raised the issue here.I agree with what you've said about men being aware they speak from a position of privilege. I Iook forward to reading the post you've included!

mhd_bass 5 pts

 SeanFaye From the work I've done in the field I find that most active feminists are not anti-porn or even anti-sex industry. Many of them feel that the anti-porn lobby has been given undue media attention. I have to say I'd agree - and I think it gives people a skewed impression of contemporary feminism.  Do check the post out - it's very honest!

mhd_bass 5 pts

 SeanFaye oh and I should mention that there are also loads of fab feminist porn directors - check out Anna Span if you're interested (!!)

OliverJ0 5 pts

I think one of the problems to getting men involved in feminism is that it has a bit of an image problem at the moment. In my opinion "feminism" is the belief that men and women are equal and should be treated as such, by this definition I am a feminist. (note: having never studied feminist theory there may well be many intricacies that I'm missing by my simple definition)

 

With that definition virtually every man I know would be a feminist but very few would openly refer to themselves as a feminist. This is because they see feminism not as the battle for equal rights but the argument that women are better than men, and therefore an attack on all males. This is partly due to their own misguidance (and therefore something people should be educated on from a young age) but also the fault of feminists for some of the arguments that get put forward. I've lost count of the amount of times I've heard comments such as "there wouldn't be as many wars if women were in charge" or other similar comments that appear to suggest that the problem is not that one sex is unfairly at an advantage but that specifically the problem is that men are in charge rather than women, and that if we had a matriarchal society all our problems would magically disappear.

 

These sorts of comments, which are widespread but by no means ubiquitous (before anyone gets angry I do know that not all feminists think exactly the same and I'm sure that many people would never make these sorts of comments), firstly support the myth that men and women are inherently different in far more ways than simple biology, but secondly continue the idea that there is a battle of the sexes and therefore a zero-sum gain; i.e. any advancement for women must mean disadvancement (is that a word?) for men, which is patently untrue, greater equality is (again imo) better for everyone. The reason for having a more equal workforce is because women bring some sort of mystical extra skills not available to those of us who have the mutated y chromosome, but because you want the best people for a job and you'd have thought that statistically 50% of the time that would be a woman (ignoring careers that may well be gender specific, women might feel more comfortable with a female midwife, although that is speculation on my behalf and I have no supporting evidence.

 

To clarify all those arguments I just made can also be made against men who use also support the same/similar myths, and historically these myths did come from male dominated societies.

 

I've gone on for rather longer than I thought I would so I'll stop here and summarise by saying I agree with the article and feel that the definition of "feminism" needs to be taught at an early age too so that people don't get a twisted view of it.